Sorry, most of my previous comment was borderline word salad. I feel like it sharpens as easy as D2. D2 has a relatively high amount of carbon in its composition (1.55%), more than twice as much as AEB-L (0.68%), but most of that carbon goes into making chromium carbides instead of into solution in the steel matrix, leaving D2 with only ~0.5% C in solution and very large carbides that are good for wear resistance but bad for toughness. (I think the 420HC estimate in that post was based on simulation or computer modeling, since you didnt spray testing any of the 400 series.) Almost all of the knives in my EDC rotation are Spydercos, in exotic steels. just recently the idea occured tome to sharpen a planer blade like a knife and check out how it performs. How long sharpen? I dipped each in lemon juice and left in open air and tested after 30, 100, and 300 minutes, dipping in lemon juice again each time. The definition of a quality knife differs among users because of varied needs, but there are basic properties that every quality knife must have. Though technically not a stainless steel at least 14% chromium, and D2 usually has 12% it's relatively corrosion-resistant. Its hard to imagine a more rust-inducing environment than saltwater and fish guts. Here, we will discuss edge retention, toughness, ease of sharpening, and corrosion resistance. we dont know. These properties make steel a good choice for making kitchen, fishing, and everyday knives. 14C28N knives are better than D2 knives in corrosion resistance. We have our views as well, and here they are! 14C28N. Uddeholm lists it as somewhat worse in toughness than A2 but somewhat better in wear resistance. The majority of knives target 63 Rc or below so this limitation of stainless steels does not always come into play but can be an important factor for certain knives targeting high performance and thin edges. You can read more about these factors in my book Knife Engineering. The knife Natrix with substantial copper handle is a deceptively hefty EDC. Here its 8. 14% of Chromium: Increases corrosion resistance and wear resistance. It would be really useful to have the raw data that backs the charts that you produce. Another important caveat before we get to the ratings are that these are for the steel only. What is pulling that line high and to the right? Lets talk about the clip-on pocket knife. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Theyll be fully attributed to you with website and Patreon links, obviously. It's like the difference between average 420HC and Buck's 420HC with the Bos heat treatment, only from a better starting point. Hello LARRIN, do you have a Rough estimate on when ApexUltra (as well as more Magnacut) will become available? But it doesnt have great wear resistance and thus doesnt hold an edge particularly well. That mixture has one goal in mind: making a great steel for people worried about rust and corrosion. 1. Below shows pictures of a 61 Rc knife that was impacted with a 3/16 rod at different energy levels. Extra kudos for your mathmatical steel composition to edge holding model thats really impressive work. Thanks. thanks thats interesting. Even premium steels can have poor performance with poor heat treatment. The edge retention numbers are normalized to the hardness of the closest toughness test. Another common heat treating choice that is not even categorized as a mistake is tempering in the high temperature regime (~1000F) rather than the low temperature regime (~400F). G10 Nitro V vs 14C28N Last but not least, 14C28N contains comparatively more vanadium elements which makes the carbides more harder and strong, which gives 14C28N a better edge retention. Steels high in toughness are excellent for knives likely to see hard impacts, like large chopping knives. By signing up for email newsletters, you agree to GearJunkie's, Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to email a link to a friend (Opens in new window). What carbon/tool steel would you choose for a survival knife if a PM steel was too expensive? edge retention can vary by several orders of magnitude depending on what happens to the burr. I measured corrosion resistance of a slightly lower carbon 420 here: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/03/02/cpm-spy27-experiments-toughness-corrosion-resistance-and-more/. It is among the steel knives with exceptional toughness while maintaining excellent corrosion resistance. This doesnt necessarily mean they have terrible toughness, but they have limitations. On the other hand, 9cr18mov has a slightly higher molybdenum content which gives it higher hardness from quenching and helps drive carbide formation. But its very cheap, and, when ground appropriately, it can be a real winner from a value standpoint. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: 6/10: 6/10: CIVIVI Knives Elementum Folding Pocket Knife 2.96" D2 Satin Blade . If you want a sharp knife for outdoor or indoor use, D2 knives will not disappoint you. Become a patron and gain access to awesome rewards including early access to articles or a Knife Steel Nerds mug! How do its properties compare to other steels? Its not a particularly great cutter, being poor at retaining an edge. It gets exceptionally sharp, a nod to its origins as a razorblade steel. And Ive done a lot of experimental work on knife steels where I feel more confident in my own ratings. Its found on a large number of traditional-style folders. rex 121 Both of those things are no longer an issue as I now have way too many articles and a book. Later, it gets heated and compressed into one ingot. High wear resistance steels are more expensive to buy and to process, especially since many require powder metallurgy. But if you want to know what the coolest blade material is, for my money, SM100is it. I am just grasping at straws here, but from the data you shared, it seems like toughness does increase faster than edge retention decreases: it is harder to get a very high edge retention knife that will still be somewhat tough compared to a very tough knife that will still hold an edge ok. However, Kershaw asked Sandvik to make their 13C26 steel more resistant to corrosion, and the result was 14C28N. CPM 3V However, it is not really known how many different companies are making 8Cr13MoV (or at least I dont know), it could be that it is one manufacturer that is dominating the market. Having 1.5% Carbon does that. It has a lower hardness and edge retention as compared to the 9Cr knife. Some steels are cooked up specifically with this in mind and are very difficult to make rust. document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. It is most useful for steels with large amounts of carbide but also helps to be able to add certain carbide types. What would you rate the toughness of CPM-D2. 14C28N VS S30V S30V steel provides improved corrosion resistance, sharpening ease, and edge retention. Thats a little too far, but you get the point.). YMMV So youre right that a D2 blade will cut more CATRA cards than an AEB-L blade *when theyre both sharpened to the same angle* but AEB-L has much better toughness and can therefore handle being sharpened to a more acute angle without chipping, and a more acute angle is more important to continuing cutting ability than wear resistance is. The 1.4116 I tested has large carbides in it which is presumably the reason for low measured toughness: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/. In particular, I have found the ESEE/Rowen 1095 to be less likely to chip and better at holding an edge than the KA-BAR version even in knives with the same role, thickness, and blade length. Wusthof Classic Ikon 8-Inch Cooks Knife Review, Victorinox Fibrox Straight Edge Chefs Knife Review, What is Cts bd1 steel? You showed some pictures in this article of the effect on what we might call "effective toughness" of thinner edge angles vs thicker edges in the same steel at the same hardness. Anyway, buff up the O1v and it cuts leather easily. Must-Have Bowie Knives for Your Collection, What is Micarta and What Makes It a Great Knife Handle, Top 8 Reasons Why Knives Make the Best Gifts, Pocket Clips: Carry Safely and Comfortably, Make a Knife Your Own with Accessories & Customization. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. Powder metallurgy is a technology designed to maintain a small carbide size. Did you change the estimate based on more testing? It has high levels of chromium and carbon, making it extremely resistant to corrosion. For example, see the chart below for how much edge retention can change with edge geometry for a single steel (in this case 154CM and CPM-154). H2 One such person is Dr. Larrin Thomas, a professional metallurgist raised by a knife maker and a giant knife nerd. The bump in hardness comes from precipitation of fine carbides in the steel, which include chromium carbides. 14C28N Vs D2 . CPM154 is a truly superior steel. This makes for a great slicing knife and a perfect steel, in my opinion, for a regular-use, everyday-carry folder. Its so high in hardness that Maxamet knives usually ship with desiccating packages. Sharpening the knives might be challenging, but the D2 knife is high quality and affordable. LC200N is produced with a special technique to add high nitrogen, giving steel excellent corrosion resistance on the top! Im not sure they answer my question, though, and some of your points dont seem to jive with the info here on Larrins site. Ease of sharpening refers to how difficult it is to remove material with a sharpening stone. The old rule in steels used to be corrosion resistance, toughness, or hardness choose two. But SM100 (the trade name for Nitinol 60) threw that out the window when introduced to the cutlery world. Each of these contributes to a knifes overall performance. On the other hand, these types of steel provide high wear resistance and toughness. 8670 and 5160 are good choices for large knives that need very high toughness. I personally don`t care about stainless (sic! Are you looking for 14c28n steel with other steel? https://cedric-ada-store.creator-spring.com/listing/brickard-heritage-collectionGood gravy its bricky on thingsSubscribe and hit the bell! Often used for combat knives. In general, higher carbon steels have higher edge retention but lower toughness. D2 at 58 hard will cut much more rope than AEB-L at 62. CPM 10V This is an American-made powder steel. For example, Bohler M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV are all nearly identical and indistinguishable in practice. If you want to learn more about a specific steel, you can click it in the sorted listings below. In the context of a knife this would be chipped edges or broken knives. The choice between the two depends on your knife needs. Hello everyone I've been loking into twosun knives recently. Dr. Thomas you spoke of using a different media for cutting test and I have some extra veg tan leather and was wondering what are the parameters of the leather you need? Rust Test includes:D2 from Bestech and WE1095 from shop8Cr13Mov from Spyderco420HC from BuckWalmart knifeY Start (Marked D2)Follow me at:Twitter: https://twi. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. Or is this an argument that tends to be rooted more in the presumption that Japanese steel > Chinese steel than any practical difference in reality? Im writing a book about choosing a knife for EDC. Although it should be noted that there doesnt seem to be a need for the stainlessness on a wood working tool. It would be great if you wrote a basic rundown of cryo treatment of knife steels, whats involved, the effects, interactions with other treatments like tempers, alloys that benefit the most, etc. There are a few aspects to your question, I think. Anybody know how the Sandvik stacks up against all these other steels. 14C28N and D2 steel are not the same. At the end of the article I gave a list of reasons why I hadnt made my own ratings chart, two big reasons were: 1) I didnt yet have articles explaining what edge retention and toughness even is (this was early on in Knife Steel Nerds), 2) I didnt have good experimental numbers on many steels. . Its very tough and exceptionally corrosion-resistant. If you are a newbie to steel knives and the differences are not yet clear, come with us to the next section as we look into each knifes characteristics, pros, and cons. Approximately the same hardness, yes. second it might be of importance which way you sharpened because if against the edge the steels might have reacted differently to the contamination remaining on the edge. CROMOVA It is an excellent steel that in the right hands has proven to produce high performing blades. D2 is a high carbon, high chromium die steel and is the highest carbon alloy tool and die steel typically used in knife making. But its lightyears ahead of the alternatives, specifically titanium-bladed knives. In general, the more carbide the steel has and the larger the carbides the lower is the toughness. Privacy Policy. However, even in this case there is the complicating factor of carbide and abrasive hardness. 9cr18mov vs 14c28n. Its a good balance between all three attributes, being relatively hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. I forgot, I got the higher carbon steels will have higher edge retention from this website. 440A i understand the samples were treated in the same way. Its actually quite good, low-cost steel that performs like midprice steel. My favorites of the high edge retention group are Vanadis 8 and CPM-10V. The only thing putting me off immediately buying the p135 is the 14c28n steel. Vanax gives up some toughness and hardness vs MagnaCut for saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. You can read about my CATRA edge retention testing in this article. the following is not a critique, just a few thoughts to maybe put the relationships into a wider perspective and point to additional dimensions. I couldnt find much on 5160 steel and from a knife makers point of view if you are saying youre the preferred supplier of special ops than I dont understand this choice in knife steel.
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